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Author Topic: Problems with receiving GPS signals  (Read 36947 times)

Hubert

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2010, 12:14:55 pm »

Hubert, you have written you did have had problems getting 3Dfix when you have been in holiday, far away from home.
Do you think itīs possible this can be a reason for an insufficient GPS-fix?
Yes - I'm rather sure now.  In the meantime I have learned, when you move the watch over a longer
distance (I forgot what "long" means, I think it was something like 100 miles or km ?) the internal data
of so called "Alamanac" is lost or invalid and has to be re-loaded. This can take about 15 min. time.
This normally is defined as "Cold Start".  So I do not understand, why GlobalSat gives a value of
average 42 sec. for a cold start. I think there is some misunderstanding or different definitions ?

Second thing is, that I don't understand why the watch seems to need a coldstart, even when it is
not moved over a long distance  ???  Maybe the alamanac data isn't stored correctly ?
Does the storage need battery power ? Normaly it shouldn't. It should be stored in non volatile memory.
Like other configuration data. This isn't lost during battery empty. ...you never know...

Hope that Geoffrey can get some explanations from his engineers...

Regards, Hubert
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GH-625XT, Firmware: F-GGH-2P-1112231 (Beta)
GH-505 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2C-1007161 (Beta)
GH-625 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2A-1001073 (Version XII)
with GS-Sport Gym Pro v1.6.8 and Sporttracks 2.1.3326

Longjog @ GS-Sport-Servicecenter

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2010, 02:22:57 pm »

Yes - I'm rather sure now.  In the meantime I have learned, when you move the watch over a longer
distance (I forgot what "long" means, I think it was something like 100 miles or km ?) the internal data
of so called "Alamanac" is lost or invalid and has to be re-loaded. This can take about 15 min. time.
This normally is defined as "Cold Start".  So I do not understand, why GlobalSat gives a value of
average 42 sec. for a cold start.

Hello again,

I tried Cold Start (Switch on by pressing PG+UP+ON -> Test-Menue ->GPS-Test -> Cold Start). Watch needed 289 sec. = 4:49 till 3D fix (counter on top of screen right side). Not 15 minutes.
After this in GPS-Test switch GPS off, switch on -> 3D fix after 44 sec.

An other Cold Start: 370 sec. = 6:10 till 3D fix
Off - On -> 3D fix 0 sec. (at once).

Weater: cloudy but no rain.

Regards
Longjog


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albert

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2010, 06:22:18 pm »

Hello All,

Quote
* Isn't it possible to start the watch in a mode similar to indoor mode ? Indoor mode also provides
   all functions besides GPS.
* So, maybe the question at the beginning could be changed to: "No GPS. Start in indoor more ? Y/N ?
* And then, same as before: Answer "No" means: Wait for GPS.
   Answer "Yes" means: Start in indoor mode. With all functions included (besides GPS).
* And could it not be possible to try to get the GPS fix during this mode and switch GPS
   functions on as soon there is a GPS fix ?

Since I suggested the indoor mode, I did think about the possibility of getting gps signal in a later stadium. I agree with Hubert to have the watch reacting with NO GPS fix and then the question start Indoor Yes / No.
To be fair I do not think that you should go for a GPS later, because you run in a lot of other problems with it. Total distance, trackback not right, avg not right based on GPS distance, etc.
If you decide to go for indoor it is wise that the software switches off the GPS automatically and have a longer battery live time as well. If you do not like GPS to be off than the only alternative is to reset or wait until the GPS is having a 3D fix.
Hubert and all the others are right that the timer functions should work always.


Best regards,

Albert
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zingo

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2010, 05:24:22 pm »

I want the be able to get GPS data later when available, there are many usecases like you gona run with your friend and they start the nice mounten run and you dont want to wait a few minutes to get a signal. The reace start and you dont have a GPS signal, like the start is in a tunnel or you missed to start the watch in time, or you start in a city with high buildings. But I also think the indoor question is great, what about
Code: [Select]
+-----------------------------------+
|            No GPS signal          |
|+---------+ +---------+ +--------+ |
||  Start  | | Indoor  | | Abort  | |
|| anyway  | |  Mode   | |        | |
|+---------+ +---------+ +--------+ |
+-----------------------------------+
  • start anyway - GPS data will be recorded when available and distance will be wrong as discussed
  • indoor mode - No GPS data ever GPS is off to save battery HR & other sensors are still recorded
  • Abort - back out
Timer should be started in the background in "start anyway" mode as the user might just press start and run for a while until she/he look at the watch. If GPS gets available before user has selected anything the "No GPS signal" might change to something like "No startup GPS signal". This will simplify the indoor selection alot also.
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abdominizer

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2010, 02:58:07 am »

I want the be able to get GPS data later when available, there are many usecases like you gona run with your friend and they start the nice mounten run and you dont want to wait a few minutes to get a signal. The reace start and you dont have a GPS signal, like the start is in a tunnel or you missed to start the watch in time, or you start in a city with high buildings. But I also think the indoor question is great, what about
Code: [Select]
+-----------------------------------+
|            No GPS signal          |
|+---------+ +---------+ +--------+ |
||  Start  | | Indoor  | | Abort  | |
|| anyway  | |  Mode   | |        | |
|+---------+ +---------+ +--------+ |
+-----------------------------------+
  • start anyway - GPS data will be recorded when available and distance will be wrong as discussed
  • indoor mode - No GPS data ever GPS is off to save battery HR & other sensors are still recorded
  • Abort - back out
Timer should be started in the background in "start anyway" mode as the user might just press start and run for a while until she/he look at the watch. If GPS gets available before user has selected anything the "No GPS signal" might change to something like "No startup GPS signal". This will simplify the indoor selection alot also.

I like this! The more choices the better! Then I can make the choice that best suits my current situation!

Regards,
Jonas
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Hubert

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2010, 06:17:25 am »

I want the be able to get GPS data later when available, there are many usecases like you gona run with your friend and they start the nice mounten run and you dont want to wait a few minutes to get a signal. The reace start and you dont have a GPS signal, like the start is in a tunnel or you missed to start the watch in time, or you start in a city with high buildings. But I also think the indoor question is great, what about
Code: [Select]
+-----------------------------------+
|            No GPS signal          |
|+---------+ +---------+ +--------+ |
||  Start  | | Indoor  | | Abort  | |
|| anyway  | |  Mode   | |        | |
|+---------+ +---------+ +--------+ |
+-----------------------------------+
  • start anyway - GPS data will be recorded when available and distance will be wrong as discussed
  • indoor mode - No GPS data ever GPS is off to save battery HR & other sensors are still recorded
  • Abort - back out
Timer should be started in the background in "start anyway" mode as the user might just press start and run for a while until she/he look at the watch. If GPS gets available before user has selected anything the "No GPS signal" might change to something like "No startup GPS signal". This will simplify the indoor selection alot also.

First I want to say, that I also like Zingo's suggestion !  It provides all possibilities and (as he already
mentioned) simplifies the indoor mode selection.
However - let's not forget the main purpose of all this ideas:  When GPS is not available at start:
* It should be enabled automatically when available and
* The timer should never be resetted !

Btw.: I made another test this morning. I made one more run with both GH watches on to compare
some results. The first test was the GPS fix when switching both on:
First the GH-625 seemed to be faster, because after a short time it showed 3/4 fixed,
while GH-505 still showed 0/4 fixed. But then after a short moment, GPS fix appeared exactly at the
same time on both watches (about 15 sec. after switching on).
So far - so good. As it remains like this: No problem...

Regards, Hubert
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GH-625XT, Firmware: F-GGH-2P-1112231 (Beta)
GH-505 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2C-1007161 (Beta)
GH-625 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2A-1001073 (Version XII)
with GS-Sport Gym Pro v1.6.8 and Sporttracks 2.1.3326

Longjog @ GS-Sport-Servicecenter

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2010, 11:36:26 am »

Btw.: I made another test this morning. I made one more run with both GH watches on to compare
some results. The first test was the GPS fix when switching both on:
First the GH-625 seemed to be faster, because after a short time it showed 3/4 fixed,
while GH-505 still showed 0/4 fixed. But then after a short moment, GPS fix appeared exactly at the
same time on both watches (about 15 sec. after switching on).
So far - so good. As it remains like this: No problem...

Regards, Hubert
Hello Hubert,

I did the same test with my GH615 and GH505.
I switched them on outside the house the same time and went in the house to put my shoes on. When I went out again GH615 did have a 2Dfix while GH505 was asking to reset GPS (didnīt get a fix within 3 minutes). I reseted GPS and waited some minutes till GH505 did get the fix.

My run was about 17 km and 300 m before I was back at home GH505 alarmed me "No GPS signal", while GH 615 didnīt have a problem. Some seconds later I saw the GPS-symbol on GH505 stopped binking, signal was fixed again. At the end the distance on GH505 was 160m longer than on GH615. I donīt belive that itīs a chance that GH505 has always longer distances.
In an other thread you have wirtten GH505 distance is always around 50 m longer independent of the total distance. I watched the distance is 20 -30 m longer first and increasing with the distance but you canīt say double distance double longer distance.

To compare the quality of GPS receiving you have to go to the Test Mode where you can read the strengh of the gps signals.


Regards

Longjog
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Hubert

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2010, 09:08:12 am »

Hi all,

today I turned my GH-505 on at one of my favorite training start places.
I never had a problem with GH-625 here  :D

GH-505 was searching for satellites...  I stood still, tried to give the watch
a free view into the sky... waiting... ( I remember an average of 42sec.  :-\)
After 3 Min. (4*times the average) I answered the question GPS reset Y/N
with Yes to give it one more try. It took another 2 Min. to get the fix.

From my personal point of view: 5 Min. are too long for getting a GPS fix.  >:(

Regards, Hubert
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GH-505 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2C-1007161 (Beta)
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abdominizer

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2010, 02:22:11 pm »

Hello,
On the start of my run today, the GH-505 got a 3D-fix about 15 seconds faster than the GH-625. I didn't time the fix-time but I think the GH-505 took about 45 seconds to get a fix and the GH-625 about a minute.

After reading that the watch needs to be very still when getting the fix I now put my arm up on my garden fence to keep it perfectly still with nothing obstructing the sky. I find that this has improved fix-times!

Regards,
Jonas
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Hubert

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2010, 02:49:58 am »

Hello all,

once again the GH-505 failed  >:(

Yesterday I participated in a kind of a "pentathlon". No, no - not the classic one, it has just 5 different
disciplines: Fast running, Long running, Long jump, Shotput and Swimming. In Germany this is known
as "German Sport Badge" (Sportabzeichen).

On the way in my car to the sport arena, I switched my two watches on. GH-625 found the satellites
in about 1 Minute. GH-505 did not. Even after 3 Minutes with no sucess. After GPS reset it took again
about 2 Min. (Sum: 5 Min.) to get a GPS fix.

After going around for about 10-15 Min. on the sports field, I wanted to begin some warming up and wanted
to start some 400m rounds running. Because I was sure, that GPS fix was there for more than 10 Min.,
I just started the two watches and started my first round. I looked at the watches after first (auto) lap:
GH-625 showed the lap page (as expected). GH-505 showed: "No GPS. Start anyway ?"  >:(
I answered "No", stopped and resetted both timers and started again.
Next lap - same result !  >:(

After that I switched the GH-505 to watch mode and used only my GH-625 for the upcoming competitions
and I was really happy to have it with me !

Regards, Hubert
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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2010, 04:01:24 am »

Hello all,

once again the GH-505 failed  >:(

Dear Hubert,

do you think the reason is only the very bad weather at the moment in Germany? ::)
Or is it Galileo http://www.esa.int/esaNA/galileo.html which is disturbing GPS?  :D
I see, you are making the same experiences as I.

Regards

Longjog
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abdominizer

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2010, 02:14:36 pm »

Hello all,

once again the GH-505 failed  >:(

Dear Hubert,

do you think the reason is only the very bad weather at the moment in Germany? ::)
Or is it Galileo http://www.esa.int/esaNA/galileo.html which is disturbing GPS?  :D
I see, you are making the same experiences as I.

Regards

Longjog

Hello,
Can bad weather or Galileo really be the reason? I haven't had any problems getting satellite fix in Sweden with my GH-505, it is even faster then the GH-625!

Sincerely,
Jonas
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Longjog @ GS-Sport-Servicecenter

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2010, 04:16:53 pm »

Hello,
Can bad weather or Galileo really be the reason? I haven't had any problems getting satellite fix in Sweden with my GH-505, it is even faster then the GH-625!

Sincerely,
Jonas
Hi Jonas, you are a happy man ;)
Weather could have bad influence of GPS-quality. Galileo was only a joke  :o. I think it has to do with the new (smaller) antenna for GPS in GH505 (Geoffrey explained to me).
But it is really not fine that problems somtimes come and go. It was not nice to run marathon competition with GH505 which lost its function after a while and next day everything was okay again. The watch needs to be reliable, if itīs not, who would buy this? Iīm hopeing this problem can be solved.

Regards

Longjog
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TWG_TECH8

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2010, 12:55:44 am »

Hello,
Can bad weather or Galileo really be the reason? I haven't had any problems getting satellite fix in Sweden with my GH-505, it is even faster then the GH-625!

Sincerely,
Jonas
Hi Jonas, you are a happy man ;)
Weather could have bad influence of GPS-quality. Galileo was only a joke  :o. I think it has to do with the new (smaller) antenna for GPS in GH505 (Geoffrey explained to me).
But it is really not fine that problems somtimes come and go. It was not nice to run marathon competition with GH505 which lost its function after a while and next day everything was okay again. The watch needs to be reliable, if itīs not, who would buy this? Iīm hopeing this problem can be solved.

Regards

Longjog

Hi Longjog,

I have tested at stationary under clear sky, it needs under 1 minute to get fix. But needs ten minutes while in running to get first fix.
We have implement the special alogrithm to compensate when at weak signal. You may see the training file with no problem.
Comparing to Sunnto and Casio GPS watch, it is much better. And users never complain them.
Thanks for your advice again, we will keep progessing and providing the best services to you.

Sincerely,

Geoffrey

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Re: Problems with receiving GPS signals
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2010, 03:07:17 am »

Hello,
Can bad weather or Galileo really be the reason? I haven't had any problems getting satellite fix in Sweden with my GH-505, it is even faster then the GH-625!

Sincerely,
Jonas
Hi Jonas, you are a happy man ;)
Weather could have bad influence of GPS-quality. Galileo was only a joke  :o. I think it has to do with the new (smaller) antenna for GPS in GH505 (Geoffrey explained to me).
But it is really not fine that problems somtimes come and go. It was not nice to run marathon competition with GH505 which lost its function after a while and next day everything was okay again. The watch needs to be reliable, if itīs not, who would buy this? Iīm hopeing this problem can be solved.

Regards

Longjog

Hi Longjog,

I have tested at stationary under clear sky, it needs under 1 minute to get fix. But needs ten minutes while in running to get first fix.
We have implement the special alogrithm to compensate when at weak signal. You may see the training file with no problem.
Comparing to Sunnto and Casio GPS watch, it is much better. And users never complain them.
Thanks for your advice again, we will keep progessing and providing the best services to you.

Sincerely,

Geoffrey
As current GH-615 user I don't like compare Suunto or Casio (at least Suunto is very well known about problems with GPS accurancy) because my GH-615 is so good especially with GPS features. I don't like purchace device which would be worse than current one or for example Garmin.
If user compare GH-505 to some other whatch, I'm pretty sure that it would be current GS models or Garmin

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