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Author Topic: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise  (Read 14750 times)

holden

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2011, 06:52:09 am »

hi Geoffrey,

i am glad to help. the features that come to my mind first:

- doppler speed measurement. check out for more info: http://www.gps-kitesurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=item&item=gpsdevice
- tactical compass. shows the angle between wind and track. you need to set wind direction first.
- vmg. velocity made good. upwind, downwind and also towards a waypoint. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_made_good
- jumping hight. freestylers would love you for that. no idea how to realize this technically.
- countdown, starting sequence. 10min, 5min, 1min start. with the option to sync with every signal. tricky.

personally i would prefer a watch style device, since you don't really have anything to mount a bigger device onto.

for speed surfers the standard device is: Navi GT31 (around 140 euros)
as for devices that show vmg and do have a tactical compass i am not sure. there are some especially for sailers. too bulky for kitesurfing anyways http://www.velocitek.com/. i don't know if there are new smaller ones. garmin Vista HCx seams to feature vmg.
there used to be one device to measure all accelerations that was able to visualize all movements pretty acurately, also vertically.

i got myself a hydrofoil kiteboard. the analysis (gpsar software) of the most recent track gave this polar diagram. you can see the boardspeed (in knots) with the according direction. 12 o'clock is the wind direction. the dotted line is the vmg. outer line is the maximum and the inner line the average. the same for the boardspeed (red area) outer, maximum and inner, darker, average.



just tell me how i can further help and when it is time to go into details.

cheers,
h.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 03:43:40 am by holden »
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TWG_TECH8

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2011, 11:44:37 am »

hi Geoffrey,

i am glad to help. the features that come to my mind first:

- doppler speed measurement. check out for more info: http://www.gps-kitesurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=item&item=gpsdevice
- tactical compass. shows the angle between wind and track. you need to set wind direction first.
- vmg. velocity made good. upwind, downwind and also towards a waypoint. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_made_good
- jumping hight. freestylers would love you for that. no idea how to realize this technically.
- countdown, starting sequence. 10min, 5min, 1min start. with the option to sync with every signal. tricky.

personally i would prefer a watch style device, since you don't really have anything to mount a bigger device onto.

for speed surfers the standard device is: Navi GT31 (around 140 euros)
as for devices that show vmg and do have a tactical compass i am not sure. there are some especially for sailers. too bulky for kitesurfing anyways http://www.velocitek.com/. i don't know if there are new smaller ones. garmin Vista HCx seams to feature vmg.
there used to be one device to measure all accelerations that was able to visualize all movements pretty acurately, also vertically.

i got myself a hydrofoil kiteboard. the analysis (gpsar software) of the most recent track gave this polar diagram. you can see the boardspeed (in knots) with the according direction. 12 o'clock is the wind direction. the dotted line is the vmg. outer line is the maximum and the inner line the average. the same for the boardspeed (red area) outer, maximum and inner, darker, average.



just tell me how i can further help and when it is time to go into details.

cheers,
h.

Hi Holden,

Thanks for detail information. It is helpful.
We are going to make the product definition, we would like you to review and give more professional recommendations.
We hope GS product have a sufficient marketing share in this field. ;)

Sincerely,

Geoffrey
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holden

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2011, 04:07:02 am »

hey geoffrey,

i talked to a friend about this project. one thing that would be very helpful:
- short average speed and vmg. for example: avarage speed (or vmg) over the last 10 seconds. or even better: configurable timespan for "short" avarages.

about market share: some friends of mine use it and i also spotted gs-pieces on people's wrists i don't know on videos. i.e: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkdQGa5uPrs&feature=player_embedded goto 5:00. plus, some of thouse features might be interesting for other sports. doppler speed would be one.

h.
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TWG_TECH8

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2011, 03:49:46 am »

hey geoffrey,

i talked to a friend about this project. one thing that would be very helpful:
- short average speed and vmg. for example: avarage speed (or vmg) over the last 10 seconds. or even better: configurable timespan for "short" avarages.

about market share: some friends of mine use it and i also spotted gs-pieces on people's wrists i don't know on videos. i.e: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkdQGa5uPrs&feature=player_embedded goto 5:00. plus, some of thouse features might be interesting for other sports. doppler speed would be one.

h.

Hi Holden,

Thanks for information.
We plan to have two kind of speed for selection: Doppler Speed or GPS Speed. And I am wondering is VMG needed to save into memory?
Does it need waypoint saving or Map mode or navigation or TIME page?

Here is product ID:


Here is draft specification:
- 120* 80 display
- SIRF III GPS
- 25 hours battery life
- IPX7 water proof
- Selectable on SPEED or Doppler SPEED
- Configuralbe SPEED Average
- 6 hours record, interval 2s
- Priice 99 euro

We are happy to invite you and your firends to involve the projects. Please don't heasitate to share your ideas.

Sincerely,

Geoffrey

« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 03:57:04 am by TWG_TECH4 »
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TWG_TECH8

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2011, 03:39:23 am »

Hello Folks,

Here is the new coming design. ;)



Any comments?


Sincerely,

Geoffrey
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canadien

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2011, 01:33:34 pm »

Mmmm... would rather be more minimal with only the silhouette of the surfing guy on the left on uniform background (black on white or white on black). No orange rays, threes, wave and stuff: too much gives a cheap impression.

Or maybe sailor and surf people like it?
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holden

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2011, 06:53:21 am »

hey Geoffrey,

waypoints are very important. also waypoint saving. you need to get the gps koordinates of the buoys into the device even when not known in advance. with the routes you can define the course. the vmg mode, where you calculate the vmg towards a point, switches to the next buoy as you pass one waypoint. i don't think it to be necessary to save vmg since it is too dependend on the situation.

map mode might be useful.

time page might be nice as value for user defined screens. dedicated time page with no other info, no. maybe a combined timer/time page.

the shorter the intervall between points, the better. if you want to analyse your tacks and jibes every second counts. what is the maximum no of points you can record?

25h battery life sounds nice!

i will keep thinking...

h.
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TWG_TECH8

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2011, 10:39:02 am »

hey Geoffrey,

waypoints are very important. also waypoint saving. you need to get the gps koordinates of the buoys into the device even when not known in advance. with the routes you can define the course. the vmg mode, where you calculate the vmg towards a point, switches to the next buoy as you pass one waypoint. i don't think it to be necessary to save vmg since it is too dependend on the situation.

map mode might be useful.

time page might be nice as value for user defined screens. dedicated time page with no other info, no. maybe a combined timer/time page.

the shorter the intervall between points, the better. if you want to analyse your tacks and jibes every second counts. what is the maximum no of points you can record?

25h battery life sounds nice!

i will keep thinking...

h.

Hi Holden,

I think it can be save up to 9,000 points.
So the VMG comes out depends on the angle between moving direction and to waypoint? Is it not related wind direction?
We will keep coordination saving and what is your thought on appear?

Sincerely,

Geoffrey
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TWG_TECH8

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2011, 10:42:08 am »

Mmmm... would rather be more minimal with only the silhouette of the surfing guy on the left on uniform background (black on white or white on black). No orange rays, threes, wave and stuff: too much gives a cheap impression.

Or maybe sailor and surf people like it?

Hi Canadian,

Thanks for comments.
We have another faceplate design, tomorrow I would like to send you for review. ;)

Sincerely,

Geoffrey
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Bananentiger

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2011, 10:52:15 am »

These would be my "dream" :

Requirements for Races:

  1.  "Pre-Start-Modus"
       1.1   Entering of Waypoints (left and right side starting line, rounding marks of the course)
       1.2   Input of First Mark Direction (given by race comittee or when possible measured themselves),
       1.3   Input of wind direction measured on land before race.

  2.   "Starting-Modus":
       2.1  Automatic detection of best side to start pending on starting line, wind direction and/or First Mark Direction
       2.2  Distance to starting line important
       2.3  Timer with loud beep every minutes, last 15 seconds each second a beep and possibly to adjust the timing
       2.4  Automatic Switch from "Starting-Modus" to "Upwind-Tacking-Modus" ~10 sec after Start.

  3.   "Upwind-Tacking-Modus":
       3.1  SoG current speed over ground
       3.2  CoG course over ground
       3.3  Course-Indikator
                  a) Automatic Detection if the course you sail is good-proceed or bad-tack to reach first mark
                      pending First Mark Direction and CoG or given Wind Direction and CoG
                  b) Automatic Detection of Wind Shifts
       3.4  Automatic calculation of lay lines and calculating distance to lay line, Warning Signal.
       3.5  Heading and VMG
       3.6  Automatic Switch from "Upwind-Tacking-Modus" to "Downwind-Gybing-Modus" at first mark rounding

   4.   "Downwind-Gybing-Modus":
        4.1  VMG and Heading to next mark
        4.2  SoG current speed over ground
        4.3  Distance to next mark
        4.4  Automatic calculation of lay lines and calculating distance to lay line, Warning Signal.
        4.5  Course-Indikator
                  a) Automatic Detection if the course you sail is good-proceed or bad-gybe to reach leeward mark
                      pending Wind Direction and CoG
                  b) Automatic Detection of Wind Shifts
        4.6   Automatic Switch from "Downwind-Gybing-Modus" "Upwind-Tacking-Modus" at downwind mark rounding

   5.  "After Finish"
        5.1 Show elapsed time since Start
        5.2 Show Wind Shifts
        5.3 Automatic Switch from "After Finish" to "Pre-Start Modus" after review of former two points.

Requirements for Race-Trainings:

- "Upwind-Tacking"
   SoG current speed
   CoG Course over Ground
   Course/Wind Shift Indicator (Detection for wind shifts)

- "Downwind-Gybing"
   SoG current speed
   CoG Course over Ground

Others:
- Best would be a calculation of the speed based on the Doppler-principle used by the GT-31 as it is more acurate.
- The course you sailed should be tracked and able to be downloaded onto a PC for analysis of your race or training afterwards.
- A nice feature is also to determine with your tracked data a polar diagram for you and your material you use.
  Like the one shown before. I am interested how it has been done.

I do not know how this can be shown on the given display and still readbale during surfing.

There are two devices on the market used for sailing boats.
http://www.velocitek.com/prostart/features/   Pro Start from Velocitek
http://www.nauteek.com/EN/index.php?page=3&prod=2  SC200 from Nauteek (cheaper copy of Velocitek)
For the Course/Wind Shift Indicator you also take a look at:
http://www.tacktick.com/products/38  T070 Micronet Race master from TackTick

My background:
I have been sailing races for 20 years on diverse dinghy classes in Germany. Stopped for Job and family in the last years.
At the moment switched to race course windsurfing when family and job allows it.

I purchased recently a used GH615 for 20EUR and updating it now to 625 firmware.
I want to use it because I do not have a training partner available to check speed and height.
A polar diagram will help me here to improve this by analyzing my track data.

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holden

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2011, 05:29:59 am »

hi geoffrey,

i am afraid that 9000 points will be tight. that is only 2,5 hours when using a 1s interval. on a day out racing you will most likely end up with more. even with 2 secs you get 5h which might be not enough.

as for the VMG: there are 2 modes. one mode is VMG relative to the wind direction. positive if going upwind, negative if going downwind. the second mode is relative to the waypoint you are going to. the same is true for the tactical compass. heading to wind direction and heading to mark (waypoint).

i like the design (including orange beams) but it does not trigger the fealing i get when i use the gps device. waves and palm trees is more like having a good time in the surf. if you target also windsurfers and dinghy pilots you might want to include them into the pic.

@Bananentiger: welcome to the discusion! nice list! this is the software you need for the polar diagram:
http://gpsactionreplay.free.fr/
you just need to open the gpx file of the track you recorded with your gh615/625.

h.

for the racing fealing:


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brad

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2011, 03:05:46 am »

Hi there , i am in New Zealand and would love to be a tester if you ever need one
i mostly race rs:x but kite with a courseboard

is IPX7 enough?
if you incorporate all of the start features that Bananentiger said, how would these work with tide ? here we have tides 3-4 knots through the whole course
Bradley
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 05:49:56 pm by brad »
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brad

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2011, 03:33:25 am »

look any better? (sorry best i could do with low-res image)





the last one was a failed attempt at making something that somewhat resembeled wind ^ , because for the orange one, the palm tree looked too calm and the waves were not getting whipped by the wind.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 05:13:39 pm by USG_TECH10 »
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GS_TECH01

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2011, 11:49:54 am »

In order to attach an image, please click on the Insert Image button under the Bold icon and paste the link. You can create an online account where you can freely upload your pictures (i.e. Photobucket). Just copy the image tag and post it here.

Let me know if you have any questions.
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brad

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Re: Windsurfing, Sailing GPS paradise
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2011, 02:24:53 am »

Hey thanks i did that, although they come up as funny icons now =/

is this still getting developed ? havent been much activity on the thread lately :|

Brad
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