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Author Topic: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm  (Read 6812 times)

TWG_TECH8

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2011, 11:49:15 am »

Quote
To have better grade, we are willing to provide new GPS instrument to help you.
As the competition is indoor I will miss "AutoAddDistGPSOff" described here:
http://www.usglobalsat.com/forum/index.php?topic=1192.msg5408#msg5408
 
Will still use the watch and press the lap button each lap so I get lap-times and can somewhat track my speed, but the limit of 64 laps will force me to restart the timing as I plan to run about 300 laps, but that is not that big problem here as I'm mostly interested in my "current" speed.


Hi Zingo,

I think the features are workable. For AutoAddDistGPSOff, we might add into LAP SETTING, and it only works on INDOOR training. The total distance will be come out by N Laps*AutoAddDistGPSOff. But I am not sure it has sufficent effect due to only 64 Laps in one training since protocol limition.
For "AutoGPSLap", do you mean coordination trigger? I have concern is that it might mal-action or continous trigger when in bad GPS signal or small cross course. Ex. To set threshold as 20m, when reach -20m to destination and then wake AutoLap,
if we still stay in threshold +/-20m circular area, AutoLap has chance to act continously.


Sincerely,

Geoffrey
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 11:51:07 am by TWG_TECH4 »
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canadien

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2011, 02:05:48 pm »

But I am not sure it has sufficent effect due to only 64 Laps in one training since protocol limition.
Could it just calculate the speed without saving the lap? So we could use it indefinitely.
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TWG_TECH8

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2011, 10:40:34 pm »

But I am not sure it has sufficent effect due to only 64 Laps in one training since protocol limition.
Could it just calculate the speed without saving the lap? So we could use it indefinitely.

That means we have change protocol to have additional commands. It will impact a lot and need much effort.
For further generations, training can have up to 6400 Laps. It should no more concern.

Sincerely,

Geoffrey
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Hubert

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2011, 06:59:10 am »

Hi Geoffrey and Zingo,
For "AutoGPSLap", do you mean coordination trigger? I have concern is that it might mal-action or continous trigger when in bad GPS signal or small cross course. Ex. To set threshold as 20m, when reach -20m to destination and then wake AutoLap,
if we still stay in threshold +/-20m circular area, AutoLap has chance to act continously.

Sincerely,Geoffrey
Geoffrey, what you call "coordination trigger" or like Zingo said "AutoGPSLap" was one of my very first
wishes to be added as a function. So - I also would like to have it !

Of course, there will be the problem of continously triggering when you do it in this simple way.
But it's easy to modify: You just have to add a function, which disables AutoLap immediatly
after triggering when first reaching the threshold area at e.g. -20m.  AutoLap then has be enabled
again, after leaving the threshold zone at +20m.
To avoid errors caused by inaccuracy of GPS or bad signals, which might result in missing a trigger
completely, the treshold area shouldn't be too small. However: +/- 20m makes an area of 40m.
This should be big enough. If not, I don't have a problem with making it larger.

Regards, Hubert
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GH-625XT, Firmware: F-GGH-2P-1112231 (Beta)
GH-505 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2C-1007161 (Beta)
GH-625 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2A-1001073 (Version XII)
with GS-Sport Gym Pro v1.6.8 and Sporttracks 2.1.3326

TWG_TECH8

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2011, 02:58:19 am »

Hi Geoffrey and Zingo,
For "AutoGPSLap", do you mean coordination trigger? I have concern is that it might mal-action or continous trigger when in bad GPS signal or small cross course. Ex. To set threshold as 20m, when reach -20m to destination and then wake AutoLap,
if we still stay in threshold +/-20m circular area, AutoLap has chance to act continously.

Sincerely,Geoffrey
Geoffrey, what you call "coordination trigger" or like Zingo said "AutoGPSLap" was one of my very first
wishes to be added as a function. So - I also would like to have it !

Of course, there will be the problem of continously triggering when you do it in this simple way.
But it's easy to modify: You just have to add a function, which disables AutoLap immediatly
after triggering when first reaching the threshold area at e.g. -20m.  AutoLap then has be enabled
again, after leaving the threshold zone at +20m.
To avoid errors caused by inaccuracy of GPS or bad signals, which might result in missing a trigger
completely, the treshold area shouldn't be too small. However: +/- 20m makes an area of 40m.
This should be big enough. If not, I don't have a problem with making it larger.

Regards, Hubert

Hi Hubert,

Dymaic threshold contronl seems a good idea. I will discuss with our engineer.

Sincerely,
Geoffrey
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Hubert

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2011, 04:59:21 am »

HI Geoffrey,

Hi Geoffrey and Zingo,
But it's easy to modify: You just have to add a function, which disables AutoLap immediatly
after triggering when first reaching the threshold area at e.g. -20m.  AutoLap then has be enabled
again, after leaving the threshold zone at +20m.

Regards, Hubert

I just want to suggest one more small optimisation: Instead of having a symetric trigger area (+/- 20m)
it would be better to increase the distance, when leaving the area (e.g. +40m). This will avoid re-triggering
in a better way.

Regards, Hubert
P.S.:  I think these subjects shouldn't be discussed in a board / thread called "Off topic".
I think, these could be very nice features and if we continue to discuss it in "Off topic", maybe some users
might miss it. Perhaps one of the moderators can try to move the related postings somewhere else ?
However, because this isn't a model specific subject, I also don't know where to place best...
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GH-625XT, Firmware: F-GGH-2P-1112231 (Beta)
GH-505 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2C-1007161 (Beta)
GH-625 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2A-1001073 (Version XII)
with GS-Sport Gym Pro v1.6.8 and Sporttracks 2.1.3326

TWG_TECH8

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2011, 06:59:31 am »

HI Geoffrey,

Hi Geoffrey and Zingo,
But it's easy to modify: You just have to add a function, which disables AutoLap immediatly
after triggering when first reaching the threshold area at e.g. -20m.  AutoLap then has be enabled
again, after leaving the threshold zone at +20m.

Regards, Hubert

I just want to suggest one more small optimisation: Instead of having a symetric trigger area (+/- 20m)
it would be better to increase the distance, when leaving the area (e.g. +40m). This will avoid re-triggering
in a better way.

Regards, Hubert
P.S.:  I think these subjects shouldn't be discussed in a board / thread called "Off topic".
I think, these could be very nice features and if we continue to discuss it in "Off topic", maybe some users
might miss it. Perhaps one of the moderators can try to move the related postings somewhere else ?
However, because this isn't a model specific subject, I also don't know where to place best...

Hi Hubert,

Thanks for suggestion. To make more distingulishable, I created this new bread.
You idea to avoid re-trigger is possbile, but you should know the Lap cumulative error will occur again.
Maybe we can treat like Lap cumulative error before, like below:

Interval distance: K [m]
The distance to trigger point: Z[m]
Threshold: P [m]
Lap counts: N

1. If Z<=P, Save interval distance as reference distance as Q, Lap count: N=N+1 (Lap1)
2. If Z<=P, Interval distance K>= Q Lap ap count: N=N+1 (Lap2), Save Q=K
3. P= Q-K,  If Z<=P, Interval distance K>= Q Lap ap count: N=N+1 (Lap3), Save Q=K
3. P= Q-K,  If Z<=P, Interval distance K>= Q Lap ap count: N=N+1 (Lap4), Save Q=K
:
The rest can be done in the same manner .

But I am not sure it works or will have problem of lost signal or leaving the regular track? ??? ???
Or we can skip lap cumulative error problem?

Sincerely,

Geoffrey

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zingo

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2011, 10:02:49 am »

Quote
I think the features are workable. For AutoAddDistGPSOff, we might add into LAP SETTING, and it only works on INDOOR training. The total distance will be come out by N Laps*AutoAddDistGPSOff. But I am not sure it has sufficent effect due to only 64 Laps in one training since protocol limition.
I think we have to live with the 64 lap limit for now for old produt most people won't mind. The others need to stop en restart the timmer but you will still get a good "current" pace over the last laps.
Quote
For "AutoGPSLap", do you mean coordination trigger? I have concern is that it might mal-action or continous trigger when in bad GPS signal or small cross course. Ex. To set threshold as 20m, when reach -20m to destination and then wake AutoLap,
if we still stay in threshold +/-20m circular area, AutoLap has chance to act continously.

Yes, keep it simple since this is the same as pressing "LAP" button. I don't think you need to care about "cumulative error" this only a problem if you have a defined LAP setting. I agree with Hubert that you probably have a "smal" area that triggers a "LAP" but have to leave a larger area to enable a new trig. e.g. +-20m as a GPS trigger point, but you have to travel outside +-40m before it will look for the smaler circle again.

Found another problem during the race, when in "normal mode" (e.g. not indoor mode) I have specified to save data only every 4s but in indoor mode it always saves every 1s. I don't know it it is a big problem, I got into memory full problem during the race as it didn't fit, I did only check if if fit if I saved every 4s. Maybe Indoor mode should be more relaxed and use something longer then 1s  I don't need that resolution, but others might need it?
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TWG_TECH8

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2011, 10:18:27 am »

Quote
I think the features are workable. For AutoAddDistGPSOff, we might add into LAP SETTING, and it only works on INDOOR training. The total distance will be come out by N Laps*AutoAddDistGPSOff. But I am not sure it has sufficent effect due to only 64 Laps in one training since protocol limition.
I think we have to live with the 64 lap limit for now for old produt most people won't mind. The others need to stop en restart the timmer but you will still get a good "current" pace over the last laps.
Quote
For "AutoGPSLap", do you mean coordination trigger? I have concern is that it might mal-action or continous trigger when in bad GPS signal or small cross course. Ex. To set threshold as 20m, when reach -20m to destination and then wake AutoLap,
if we still stay in threshold +/-20m circular area, AutoLap has chance to act continously.

Yes, keep it simple since this is the same as pressing "LAP" button. I don't think you need to care about "cumulative error" this only a problem if you have a defined LAP setting. I agree with Hubert that you probably have a "smal" area that triggers a "LAP" but have to leave a larger area to enable a new trig. e.g. +-20m as a GPS trigger point, but you have to travel outside +-40m before it will look for the smaler circle again.

Found another problem during the race, when in "normal mode" (e.g. not indoor mode) I have specified to save data only every 4s but in indoor mode it always saves every 1s. I don't know it it is a big problem, I got into memory full problem during the race as it didn't fit, I did only check if if fit if I saved every 4s. Maybe Indoor mode should be more relaxed and use something longer then 1s  I don't need that resolution, but others might need it?

Hi Zingo,

Thanks for confirmation! It is much clear and easy to management.
About resolution, I am thinking to use your way to cancal of INDOOR item, for sure the resolution is according to your current setting.

Sincerely,

Geoffrey
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ultrapetita

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2011, 02:19:46 am »

Found another problem during the race, when in "normal mode" (e.g. not indoor mode) I have specified to save data only every 4s but in indoor mode it always saves every 1s. I don't know it it is a big problem, I got into memory full problem during the race as it didn't fit, I did only check if if fit if I saved every 4s. Maybe Indoor mode should be more relaxed and use something longer then 1s  I don't need that resolution, but others might need it?

Hi Zingo,

I found this problem already for some days before the race. My plan was to change to old GH-615 at some point, but then, at the end of race, I didn't want to stop for changing the watch and thus, I just saved the HRM data and used the GH-505 as a watch after that.

I guess nobody needs resolution of 1s in HRM data and for me it could well be 5-10s or self configurable in indoor mode.
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Hubert

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2011, 03:30:24 am »

Hi Geoffrey,

You idea to avoid re-trigger is possbile, but you should know the Lap cumulative error will occur again.
...
Or we can skip lap cumulative error problem?

Sincerely, Geoffrey
I agree with Zingo, when he said that in this case a cumulative error wouldn't be a big problem.
So - from my point of view, it wouldn't be necessary to implement a complicated calculation.
And furthermore: I still don't see, why there should be a cumulation ?!
Of course: First Lap will be shorter than expected (~20m), but all following Laps should have
exactly the correct distance. Of course it will be necessary to keep the trigger point at the
original first starting point ! You mustn't move the trigger coordinates when a new lap is reached !

So, I'm aware that lap distances will differ caused by GPS inaccuracy, but I don't see a reason
why there should be some kind of cumulation.

For your second concern:
...
But I am not sure it works or will have problem of lost signal or leaving the regular track? ??? ???

Sincerely, Geoffrey
Yes - of course - you are right. Function will not work in case of GPS lost or when leaving
the regular track.  However - I cannot see the problem:
* When GPS is lost, it is quite normal and obvious, that all (!) GPS based functions cannot work anymore.
   This is not a reason for not-implementing a GPS based function...
* For leaving the track: The basic idea of the function is, to count a lap, when specific start coordinates
   are reached again.  If the coordinates are not reached (for whatever reason), the lap isn't counted.
   That's it. No problem.

Regards, Hubert
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 01:05:45 pm by Hubert »
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GH-625XT, Firmware: F-GGH-2P-1112231 (Beta)
GH-505 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2C-1007161 (Beta)
GH-625 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2A-1001073 (Version XII)
with GS-Sport Gym Pro v1.6.8 and Sporttracks 2.1.3326

TWG_TECH8

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2011, 11:03:08 am »

Hi Geoffrey,

You idea to avoid re-trigger is possbile, but you should know the Lap cumulative error will occur again.
...
Or we can skip lap cumulative error problem?

Sincerely, Geoffrey
I agree with Zingo, when he said that is this case a cumulative error wouldn't be a big problem.
So - from my point of view, it wouldn't be necessary to implement a complicated calculation.
And furthermore: I still don't see, why there should be a cumulation ?!
Of course: First Lap will be shorter than expected (~20m), but all following Laps should have
exactly the correct distance. Of course it will be necessary to keep the trigger point at the
original first starting point ! You mustn't move the trigger coordinates when a new lap is reached !

So, I'm aware that lap distances will differ caused by GPS inaccuracy, but I don't see a reason
why there should be some kind of cumulation.

For your second concern:
...
But I am not sure it works or will have problem of lost signal or leaving the regular track? ??? ???

Sincerely, Geoffrey
Yes - of course - you are right. Function will not work in case of GPS lost or when leaving
the regular track.  However - I cannot see the problem:
* When GPS is lost, it is quite normal and obvious, that all (!) GPS based functions cannot work anymore.
   This is not a reason for not-implementing a GPS based function...
* For leaving the track: The basic idea of the function is, to count a lap, when specific start coordinates
   are reached again.  If the coordinates are not reached (for whatever reason), the lap isn't counted.
   That's it. No problem.

Regards, Hubert

Hi Hubert,

Thanks for sssso detail explanation.
Now I am sure it won't have problem. ;D I will check with engineer tomorrow. ;)


Sincerely,

Geoffrey
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zingo

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2011, 01:31:37 pm »

Quote
* When GPS is lost, it is quite normal and obvious, that all (!) GPS based functions cannot work anymore.
   This is not a reason for not-implementing a GPS based function...
* For leaving the track: The basic idea of the function is, to count a lap, when specific start coordinates
   are reached again.  If the coordinates are not reached (for whatever reason), the lap isn't counted.
   That's it. No problem.

If you leave the track and take another kind of loop I like to be able to press "LAP" button to set a new "trigger" area. This is needed in races where you dont't start in the loop, a lot of race do not start on the loop/finish area but instead have another starting point making the first lap shorter/longer so that you end up with the finish exactly at marathon distance (or some other nice figure).
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TWG_TECH8

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2011, 05:28:16 am »

Quote
* When GPS is lost, it is quite normal and obvious, that all (!) GPS based functions cannot work anymore.
   This is not a reason for not-implementing a GPS based function...
* For leaving the track: The basic idea of the function is, to count a lap, when specific start coordinates
   are reached again.  If the coordinates are not reached (for whatever reason), the lap isn't counted.
   That's it. No problem.

If you leave the track and take another kind of loop I like to be able to press "LAP" button to set a new "trigger" area. This is needed in races where you dont't start in the loop, a lot of race do not start on the loop/finish area but instead have another starting point making the first lap shorter/longer so that you end up with the finish exactly at marathon distance (or some other nice figure).

Hi Zingo, all

Now we are working the beta firmware in GH-625. We plan to implement:
1. Friendly Indoor training, system will confirm to achieve Indoor Trainnig when start timer under no fix.
2. AUTO GPSOFFLAP, perform as simple sportwatch as lap with difintion of lap distance.
3. AUTO LAP by POINT.

We expect to release soon.
Hope eveyone keep loving our product. :D
Sincerely,

Geoffrey
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Hubert

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Re: Opimization of scenario or other better idea on alogrithm
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2011, 06:44:12 am »

Hi Geoffrey, Zingo, all !

If you leave the track and take another kind of loop I like to be able to press "LAP" button to set a new "trigger" area. This is needed in races where you dont't start in the loop, a lot of race do not start on the loop/finish area but instead have another starting point making the first lap shorter/longer so that you end up with the finish exactly at marathon distance (or some other nice figure).

I agree to what Zingo said. This would be a useful extension and I think, I shouldn't make too much effort for implementing.
So - Geoffrey, please consider this suggestion also.

And, Geoffrey: Yes - of course: I still love your products. But I don't know, which one to love more !
My GH-505 has only some minor problems, so most of the time (90%) I use the GH-505.
However, in the meantime, more and more functions are being added to GH-625 (like interval training,
Lap by point), which I would like to use.  So - both have some advantages, both have some disadvantages...

I really hope, that a new model like GH-625XT will include all the positive features of the known models.
(...and I also hope, to participate in the testers group again...) ;)  

Regards, Hubert
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GH-625XT, Firmware: F-GGH-2P-1112231 (Beta)
GH-505 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2C-1007161 (Beta)
GH-625 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2A-1001073 (Version XII)
with GS-Sport Gym Pro v1.6.8 and Sporttracks 2.1.3326
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