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[canadien]

The first GPS fixed is called as cold start as similar as GH-625.  Since it has peripheries prediction features and good sensitivity, the re-acquisition will be faster.

I wonder if it's possible to add force "reset satellite" function at the press of two buttons instead of waiting for the "reset satellite yes or no" window to pop up when turning on the watch. It could be PG button and "arrow up" which are at the opposite. Reset satellite (cold start) appears to me to be often faster than waiting for re-acquisition.

I think this "invisible option" can be useful for those who want it.

[gerhard]

I wrote a longer essay about the 625XT on the private mailing list, some more.

Again, I would like to stress that the 625XT is great, but there are opportunities for improvements, so I only list that right now (I have spent a lot more time coding than using the device so far).
I have compared the 625XT to a common competitor. The 625XT GPS is generally much closer to the expected position, compared on a map.
For instance, the distance on my trailrun yesterday was 30,75km compared to the other device 30,15. This is a trail run with trees and hills, but the other device has a good repeated measurement. Taking detours out, the measured length is in the interval 29,99 to 30,12km. The trail is not controlled measured, but the device lists distances slightly longer.
A part of the trail is officially measured to 9,885, the device lists it as 9,83 to 10,11km (about 30 runs logged), i.e. slightly longer. Even if the position is not always correct, the distance calculation is very good.
A note about the run is that the 625XT and the other device had about the same number of satellites (at least 6, max 9, normally . The 625XT had constantly 12 satellites (but could not lock to them). The number of sats did not decrease over time. The other device accuracy was normally 7m  (start at 5m, at most 9m). (It was dangerous to watch the screens...)

The 625XT therefore lists too long distance. Taking a close look at the tracks, shows that the 625Xt looks a little "nervous" due to the every second recording.
When using recording every third second and even better every fourth second, the distance calculation seem to be much better.
While I would prefer recording that just drops non interesting points to improve the calculations, increasing recording interval much improves the calculations.

Recording every 4th second is good for marketing too: 100h of storage.

Bugs:
 * When turning on the 625XT, every second recording is always set (even if custom is selected).
 * Pace differs up/down to what I expect (and the other device, even if that differs too).
 * Lap notifications: With trigger set to 1km, the pace differs +/- 3 sec to the reported time.
 * No accuracy field - not strictly a bug but makes it difficult to determine pace variations

/Gerhard

----
I could write a long post to why every second recording is normally just messing up data.
Some more info in this ST FAQ post:
http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/sporttracks/forums/viewtopic.php?p=35460#p35460

[vajdaz]

Hi Vaidaz,

Thanks for review.
I have some comments regarding your review.

- the screen could be brighter on XT

It could be adjust manually.

- when I turned it on first time it didn't find any satellites inside building so I don't know how for someone it could find satellites
- when I turned it on outside the building it fixed satellites after 1,5 minutes, at the same time as 625M (which was on the other hand)

The first GPS fixed is called as cold start as similar as GH-625.  Since it has peripheries prediction features and good sensitivity, the re-acquisition will be faster.

- 625M recorded 154 bpm average heart rate and XT - 161bpm, so I don't know where is the truth... it is quite big difference too

We may have the log file to investigate.

- it's interesting why interval training is under the GYM ? I'm using it outside always... and I never would think that I can find it under GYM

We try to group the planning training into GYM, any suggestions?

- I had a little competition today, and I took both my watches. I had to run ~2,5km in the town, near the buildings and there was quite big difference between my watches. 625M shows me 2.479km and XT shows 2.697km of total distance, so it's more then 200m difference , when I mounted my track on the map, I see that XT is more accurate, so that's good news

It seems interesting, do they are under the same sampling rate? We also interest to have the log file to investigate.

Have a nice weekend,

Geoffrey

Hi Geoffrey,

I have sent you my logs from 13th and 15th days runs.

In 15th day run again there is a mismatch of total distance, XT shows 9.593km and 9.220km, so there is a ~370m difference, I think it's to big... and I don't know which one tells truth, cause I'm running in the forests (not on roads) and I can't measure real distance :


Also there appeared one problem with my XTs screen, there disappeared one pixel line in screen :

[vajdaz]

And some more minor bugs:
- it is not possible to turn on the watch when it is connected to the computer or charging.
- if I turn the watch ON, then turn the light ON and then connect the watch to the computer, then I turn the watch OFF and try to turn the light OFF cause it still is ON, I can't do that... only when I disconnect the cable the light is OFF. In 625M there are no these problems.

Also one good thing, that when the watch (XT)  is charged we can see how much the battery is charged in percents.

One more thing that I do not like (but this thing is in 625m and in XT) that when I stand and do not move it shows speed and pace... isn't there a way to show 0 when I'm not moving ? Cause other devices, i.e. my mobile phone with GPS function do not show speed when I'm standing still.

Vaidas

[gerhard]

Some more about distance calculations:

I get fairly close to the expected distance when using recording every 5th second on Trail runs and 12th seconds when biking.
Not too many tests though....
The pace when running varies a little more than with every second running (which also that is even more than I expect).
Again, testing this is not a science, the distance is what I expect.

Postprocessing: using something like Douglas-Peucker (available in Waypoints plugin), the distance difference decreases but is not eliminated. For instance the 30,75km is reduced to 30,45km (expected 30,05km). Then it is hard to measure a trail...
Also the pace when running is not solved by post processing.

[gerhard]

Some comments on the 625XT. The unit is very well priced. With some SW updates and distribution it deserves to be very successful.

Packaging: looks good. There were some typos and some parts not so clear in the quick start guide, like the buttons on the front page are incorrectly mapped. (I have only browsed the guides so far.)
Accessories: Good. I like the bike holder.

Device: Looks good. Maybe a little geeky (appeals to me though), many casual users prefers smaller devices. It feels much smoother than it looks, very good to handle.
The screen has OK size, but is not used well: Black borders, large labels and units. In good light and no sweat in the eyes it is fine. In dusk, rain or reflexes, no glasses, high effort it can be hard. The digits can be twice as big as they are right now. The screen is a little blank too. Also with two fields, the display is not so easy to read.
Buttons are better than many other devices, but could be more distinct. It is not so easy to feel them with gloves. The start/stop button is difficult to get grip on. When testing, it easily bumps to the other device.
Charging plug is OK, prefer it to cradle. I wish there were IPX7 micro USB connectors (are these available?)

Heart rate monitor: Neater than the 505 ANT belt, but I feel like I will break it. The limitations are mostly the same: Too high readings at start before I sweat a lot if using synthetic shirt (not enough muscles or fat on my upper body). In some situations, the reading in the end of runs have been too high too (very close to my max HR).
The belt ticks when in use. My wife forbade me to use it indoors. Also, I get HR readings when the belt is in my backpack only.

Device SW: I am not used to the menu structure etc and have a problem
The most important issue for me is distance calculation discussed in other posts. This applies to pace readings too. Data recording settings are not saved. Distance calculation in the device should not be done from the GPS points alone, but estimated with filter.
Lap reading is configurable and relative easy to read, but slightly too short.

Wishlist:
Different screen rendering, increasing font.
Hide time-of-day and GPS info screens
Easier access detail GPS info screen
GPS accuracy fields
HR current lap, or pace last kilometer (as present in some beta SW for the 625M).
Bike mode: Some settings for pace/speed fields and data recording should be different run/bike. Also, I would prefer to turn the screen when biking so the antenna face up.

[Longjog @ GS-Sport-Servicecenter]

The Dropdown-Menues for selecting the numbers are a little small in some cases. Minimum of number of lines in sight should be 3.

Best regards

Longjog

[Alain51170]

Hello team,
Some more feedbacks.. unfortunately a bit  negative.. but this is opportunity for improvement.. isn't it?.
to be enhanced
- Contrast of the display.. It looks like the "white" is a bit Grey ==> could you check if the color is really white.. it looks like outside the matrix, white is whiter..         
Issues!!
- Heart rate issue : I still have heart rate going to 200 sometime.. No way to use the heart rate!. Look like sensibility or noise issue, when connected to PC the heart rate is counting without belt!

- Track transfer Transfer to PC OK but upload to Device, No way??? (Gym pro). The transfer is starting then i got one Error " ..

I have also an error when my mouse point over the map with a track.. (see previous log)
- Track Recording
Is supposed to be every one second (default) but when recording, we don't have for each point 1 second of difference => because of this the speed calculated on some application is impossible..
See below : This graph should be a curve..

Explanation : detail on track record .. same second on several records => Speed calculation issue..


Best regards. Alain.

[gerhard]

- Track Recording
Is supposed to be every one second (default) but when recording, we don't have for each point 1 second of difference => because of this the speed calculated on some application is impossible..

Every second is not exactly every second, it seems to be in the interval 0,7 to 1,3s at a quick glance. Use fractals of seconds and you should be better.
(I still find the speed to be a little inaccurate, especially on the device.)

[snow_freak]

I found another firmware bug:
After a run I stopped the timer and didn't save the data directly. Then I went home and saved the data (pressing ESC|LAP button). After downloading to PC, I saw that the last track point recorded was the place where I saved the data, not the place where I stopped the record.
Can anybody confirm this behaviour?

[Rookie]

I found another firmware bug:
After a run I stopped the timer and didn't save the data directly. Then I went home and saved the data (pressing ESC|LAP button). After downloading to PC, I saw that the last track point recorded was the place where I saved the data, not the place where I stopped the record.
Can anybody confirm this behaviour?

I have had same behaivior with some other model, if I recall correctly, it was GH-615 model and it not done it everytime, just few times.

I will test it with gh-625xt some day.

Rookie

[Hubert]

Hi snow_freak and Rookie,

I found another firmware bug:
After a run I stopped the timer and didn't save the data directly. Then I went home and saved the data (pressing ESC|LAP button). After downloading to PC, I saw that the last track point recorded was the place where I saved the data, not the place where I stopped the record.
Can anybody confirm this behaviour?

I have had same behaivior with some other model, if I recall correctly, it was GH-615 model and it not done it everytime, just few times.

I will test it with gh-625xt some day.

Rookie

Yes - I also remember that from my very early days of using my GH-625. When I saw this problem, I tried to
avoid this handling for the future. So - normally after finishing my training, I first press the "Pause" button and
then directly after that I press the ESC button to "Stop and Save" the data.
However - I'm sure there were also a few times, when I forgot to save the data immediately and as far as I
remember, the problems what snow-freak described, wasn't there all the time. Only sometimes - like Rookie said.

Together with trying to avoid the situation, I think I had this 1 to 3 times within 100 trainings and I didn't
consider this as a serious problem. However - if it can be solved: Fine !

Regards, Hubert

[Hubert]

Hi all,

during the last weeks I was very busy in my job and with some other
"alternative" athletic competitions (funny things like shot put, long jump
and swimming) and so I hadn't much opportunities to use and test my
new GH-625XT. However - here is a summary of my findings up to now:

1. As a summary, I'm sure that I will like my new GH-625XT.
    It is almost what I exptected: A combination of the positive qualities
    of the GH-625 and the GH-505.

2. I found functions and handling almost the same as known from GH-505.
    So this makes the usage very easy for me and so it feels like having the
    power of GH-505 with a bigger display. Or having a GH-625 with the
    all the power and capabilities of the GH-505. I like that ! 

3. As I didn't find much new functions (compared to GH-505), I tested the
    "Auto Lap by position" function. This was one of my very first wishes from
    a long ago in the early days of the GH-625. And now it's there !
    For me it worked fine and I like it. Thank you for that ! 

4. I'm really sorry to say - but I don't like the display. 
    For me it looks all gray in gray (dark gray numbers on light gray background).
    Additionally the sun ligth is reflecting. 
    And - No, the manually contrast settings doesn't help at all. It makes it worse.
    Increasing the contrast (does it really increase ?) just makes the complete display
    darker and finally unreadable. Decreasing the contrast may act as a perfect fog simulation.
    Also unreadable.
    I made this test during a bright and sunny midday and compared to the displays
    of GH-625 and GH-505, the new display of GH-625XT was only 3rd winner.

    Is this a problem of hardware or are you able to optimize it by firmware ?
    It woud be a pity, if you can't change it...

5. Heart Rate Monitor:
   It seems, that the XT model also inherited some of the bad qualities of the old GH-625.
   I hadn't time enough to analyse more deeply what happened, but during my training
   I saw some peaks of heart rate far beyond my normal values, which were not shown
   on my GH-625, which measured parallel. 
   Btw.: I had both watches with me, but only one (the new) belt. I think, this should be
   possible, isn't it ?  Perhaps next time, I will use the old GH-625 belt to see if it makes
   a difference.
   So it seems - like others also said already - that we are facing the HRM peak problems
   again ?  What algorithm are you using in GH-625XT ? Does is contain all the filterings
   and smoothings of GH-625 ? Or did you remove them ?

6. Not much more findings up to now:
   Total Distance measurement it okay for me. I seems, that GH-625XT tends to measure
   slightly more than GH-625. But in my case it was inside GPS inaccuracy (30m difference).

   I didn't test Smart Track Back up to now, because I exptect it to be like in GH-505.
   For me it was okay in GH-505 (not perfect - but okay) and it was much better as in
   GH-625. For further testing I will wait for the new firmware version.

7. I have a question regarding PC software, but I will ask this separately later on...

Regards, Hubert

[vajdaz]

Hi all,
so as I see almost every tester had the same problems:
1. Heart rate problems (the same as in 625M)
2. Longer total distance and lower speed when 1s interval is used
3. Too little screen contrast (I used to turn light ON always when I use it then it's quite normal)

4. Last GPS record is recorded at home when track is saved ant reset at home (I had this problem in 625M too)

But and with all these problems I like it

Vaidas

[Rookie]

Finnish translation is now done for gh-625xt and is sent to Geoffrey by email.
Could you please confirm that you received it.

Rookie