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[TWG_TECH8]

2. Button pressure. The amount of pressure that should be applied on the buttons is fairly high, when riding .... I would like some buttons, that are a little easier to press ......

Fully agree. I´ve heard this from S_A_S_C_H_A also.

Regards

Longjog

Another argurment for larger and less hard buttons, is that here in Denmark we ride mountainbikes in early spring and late autumn, and ven sometimes in the winter. In these periods we wear gloves, and the then buttons on the GB580 will be too small to feel through the gloves.

Hi TT,

Thanks for suggestion, we may consider this situation into next generation. Do you think GB-585 is a good idea?


Sincerely,

Geoffrey

[TWG_TECH8]

5.   The bicycle symbol is sometimes in the way, and not clear at all to make out if you are following the track correctly. Also in Birds Eye View mode the track recording line thus not follow the track line if you change to other directions than North, so it makes it messy and go’s over the track line you are following. Suggestion: Change the bicycle symbol in the symbol like GH625 but a bit bigger and a bit stretched so the top of the arrow point is good to spot. The record line can be taken away if it can’t handle  BEV, make the line solid if the STP is past so you know where you are at the moment. Together with the new arrow point it should be enough information.

7.   The Grey fields are not all very clear, also to change the contrast is not the solution because after this the normal darker grey in user page becomes too dark  . Suggestion: change the light grey fields to a bit darker.

8.   Better to have a separate on/off button. Suggestion: on the topside, makes it possible to do a lot better navigation thru the pages like back function and so on.

11.   Slope did not work!!, or did not show. I did go over 2 bridges about 200m long and height difference of 8 m, slope stayed on ZERO. It was of course about 4%. Slope thus not show up in TG!!

Agree at all the above.

Regarding on/off button. I think you're right! I think it is a mis-understanding that things is being simpler to use by reducing the number of buttons. If this way of simplification continous we will end up with devices with only one button - and whom would like to control for instance the GB580 with just one button. In my opinion the GH625 is simpler to use with its 6 buttons, compared to the GH580 4-buttons.   

Regarding the slope function I did a little study off this today. It seems to me that slope works (allthough mine device is a GB580B without barometric altimeter) - but is done either at a way too long distance, or is way too slow. At my ride today I rode up a hill - slope 8%. At the top I ride more than 300 meters out of the flat road, and the slope still showed 8, then 7 then 6 and so on. This indicates to me that the slope algorithm is taking to much of the already passed route into calculations. Another observation I did was that if I ride down a hill and then immediately up a hill of similar height - the slope is shown as 0%. Again I think this shows that the algorithm is to taking too much of the early route into calulation.

For me - as a mountain-biker - I think that the slope-calculations should be done for every 50 meters distance (here en Denmark we don't have real mountains - only hills up to approximately 170 m.)

/regard TT

Hi TT,

To simplify buttons is our target. There is still challenge due to power consumption of GPS technology.
We also consider to use touch panel or adding accelerator to eliminate number of buttons.
About slope calculation, we use rolling of 3min distance verse altitude to come out slope. 
Last time, we have test 50m base, but slope accuracy is not good.
Let's come out a good scenario.


Sincerely,

Geoffrey


 

[Hubert]

Hi Geoffrey,

We also consider to use touch panel ... to eliminate number of buttons.

Sincerely, Geoffrey

Please carefully ask and listen to customers, who are using the device for training and competitions
and not just as gimmick, if they really want a touch screen ! I'm sure, you'll find both meanings.

I personally prefer buttons !  Even on my smart mobile phone, I sometimes wish that I had my old buttons back.
But using a device during training or competition is different. I need a very clear button press for
switching a display or ending a lap. I don't want to verify two or three times, if my screen touch was
successful or not.

And I think, there are only two possibilities: Either you have small (virtuell) buttons on the screen, which
have to be touched. Those a very hard to aim during an outdoor activity.
Or (second) you have to wipe through a large number of displays to find the right one. Both I don't like.

Furthermore a touch screen could be effected by water (rain and sweat), by clothes and gloves.

If you ask me: No touch screen.  This is for sitting in a pub and showing a "cool" device. Not for outdoor training.
(just my opinion !)

Regards, Hubert

[TWG_TECH8]

Hi Albert,

Thanks for detail testing. Right now I am busy in new product development and exhibition.
Here is my comment regarding your suggestions:

1. Better and different zoom function STP based, and maybe for a little bit speed based.

We will toward this direction to improve, please kindly wait.

2. Better holder for the device, but it is there allready only could not try it jet.

We have improved, please send mail if you need that.

3.Slope calculation over a shorter time, Recording to Geoffrey they working on it.

Due to there are two model now, the same algorithm will come out different result. We have to evaluate that.

4. Changing the layout of handling the user data pages. If you go into the user pages the up and down key should page through the user pages until you press OK. Starting the recording should be made automatic and saving the data could be done by ESC key. The OK works than like the GH625 and you go through the other pages in a cycle.

It is workable, I will discuss with our engineering team.


Have a nice weekend,

Geoffrey

[TWG_TECH8]

Hi Geoffrey,

We also consider to use touch panel ... to eliminate number of buttons.

Sincerely, Geoffrey

Please carefully ask and listen to customers, who are using the device for training and competitions
and not just as gimmick, if they really want a touch screen ! I'm sure, you'll find both meanings.

I personally prefer buttons !  Even on my smart mobile phone, I sometimes wish that I had my old buttons back.
But using a device during training or competition is different. I need a very clear button press for
switching a display or ending a lap. I don't want to verify two or three times, if my screen touch was
successful or not.

And I think, there are only two possibilities: Either you have small (virtuell) buttons on the screen, which
have to be touched. Those a very hard to aim during an outdoor activity.
Or (second) you have to wipe through a large number of displays to find the right one. Both I don't like.

Furthermore a touch screen could be effected by water (rain and sweat), by clothes and gloves.

If you ask me: No touch screen.  This is for sitting in a pub and showing a "cool" device. Not for outdoor training.
(just my opinion !)

Regards, Hubert

Hi Hubert,

Yes, I think so.
Touch panel is fancy, but not practical. And it is easy to broken!
Maybe keep 4-6 buttons is a good solution so far.
But many younger likes to taste new technology, they don't care reliability and practical.


Sincerely,

Geoffrey

[albert]

Hi Geoffrey (and co-testers),

As I and others of the testers have pointed out the slope calculation is too slow, I've got this idea:

How about having two diffent slope functions (you choose which to use in config menu).

Slope function one (Road biking): I'm not a road biker so this is based on presumptions. The slope function for road bikers can be done over a long distance, because the climbs on roads is often long and smooth.

Slope function two (Mountain biking): As mountainbiker you as going on very fast changing terrain. Therefore the slope calculation should be over a short distance. I would like a calculation based on the current recording, and the two previous recordings (as a little smoothening of the calculations).

What do you say - test-friends? Any comments/improvements to this?

Regards
/TT

How about if slope calculation would be time based, then it automatically calculate slope by shorter distance when speed is slow (typically mountain biking on hard trail) and by longer distance when speed is higher (typically on roads)

Adjustable value of time (or distance) could be useful.

Rookie

Why this is not applicable?

Rookie

Hello Rookie and TT,

I already mentioned this to Geoffrey, and they changing the calculating time and make it quicker for the GB580P, because it can with the barometer. Without the barometer function it almost impossible to make the calculation time shorter, than the slope would give not stable values. My experience in 1650 km with 77 mountains is that if the mountain is long enough the slope is very exact only giving the value from a few 100 meters in the passed. I really  like the performance of the bicycle computer, it can be made better in some points, but the good thing is Globalsat team is always listening to there costumers.
I am back in the Netherlands again and hope to get to test the new holder for the GB580P.

Regards,

Albert

[canadien]

I wasn't astonished about the distance, I was more astonished about the slope.//I think we have different defintions of slope. Or did you really run up a hill of 1800 meters (   2 times ? ).

lol you are right: it just makes no sense!

Okay - I have to admit, that I never thought about slope before and I never used altitude related values.

Me too. That's the reason I failed: I tried to estimate angle with my own eyes and totally miss it. The mount is the same you can see at 47 sec in my video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOzDi6rvRNc
which is not that high but fairly steep. Slope makes sense after all...


My error is totally a lunatic one. Did not meant to look superhuman in any case. That's the reason after all I don't think I am a good beta tester for Gs-sport product and also why I wrote that I am willing to give my place to someone else. To be true I did not really ask to test 580p but had agree to make some video about it (and still willing to do so)... It would be a honor for me if you agree to take my place as a moderator. I could send you my 580 to you and you could try slope and start to make hill running with it 

Let's say that I am more a dedicated doomsday believer and free runner rather than a technical beta tester    Altought I like to participate to gang brainstorming over new product.

[Hubert]

Hi canadien !

I tried to estimate angle with my own eyes and totally miss it.

Oh yes - I know. For me a slope of 3% also mostly looks and feels like 30%   
This is why I prefer flat areas.

That's the reason after all I don't think I am a good beta tester for Gs-sport product and also why I wrote that I am willing to give my place to someone else.

Sorry - but this is nonsense ! People are different and are having different point of views and different skills.
Maybe my major interest is in technical, algorithmic questions and yours is more focussed on design, creating
videos and brainstorming new ideas. All of this is needed to create a good product or to optimize it.
So - continue what and how you did it up to now ! (in the meantime I will continue to be the stickler for details).

.... Slope makes sense after all...

So - finally this is a good result of beta testing !

Regards, Hubert

[canadien]

Ok so I can continu to sprinkle the forum with my posts then 
And a least that prooves that there is a clientele for minimal functions -let's say city- gps watch...

[albert]

Hello all, who are busy with the slope.

I did already 22700 hm with the GB580P here are my conclusions:

1. It works good on long slopes and is accurate so long the slope is more ore less constant
2. if a slope starts hard say 13% you would not see this, but after a wile it shows the avg of the last 3 minutes say 11%, but with the bike you did in the mean time about 500 ore more meters.
3. on slopes with different angels it hard to follow, if it also go's down on a mountain in a climb you don't get the right slope at all.
4. on short slopes it thus not show anything that is a pity.

My recommendation:
Make a variable in configuration with the option barometer slope calculation 15 sec (this is possible because of the stability of the barometer)
or not barometer calculation 180 sec.
Or let the customer fill in the seconds field him self, this way you can get on the end the best results by experiment.
regards,

Albert
 

[canadien]

About touch screen,

My opinion is that we should use it just to switch page like an iphone or ipod touch. I suppose nothing can't beat this efficiency when riding on a bike and wanting to switch page.... We could also use tap screen (tap anywhere on the screen) to trigger lap or any other kind of simple function. You know, just the basic...

I did already 22700 hm with the GB580P here are my conclusions:

Does your calf begins to look like small melons?

4. on short slopes it thus not show anything that is a pity.

At the end of the week I'll go back to Mont-Royal and make a serious and precise experiment to check how far is slope calculation for short slope error. I'll bring numbers on the table ;-)

Or let the customer fill in the seconds field him self, this way you can get on the end the best

If available on next firmware, I am willing to deeply beta test it for experiment purpose on different hills elevation in and out of the citĄ (sound like an exciting hill quest/mission)...  and think I will blown dust out of my mechanic physics book from college to get the real deal!

[TurboTorben]

Without the barometer function it almost impossible to make the calculation time shorter, than the slope would give not stable values.

Hi Albert,

Thats my point. I think that if slope calculations can't be better in the GB580B (without barometer), Globalsat should remove this feature in this model. If not - I think they will experience a lot of dissatisfied customers, which would be a shame.

Regards

TT

[jervanheg]

Touch panel is fancy, but not practical. And it is easy to broken!
Maybe keep 4-6 buttons is a good solution so far.
But many younger likes to taste new technology, they don't care reliability and practical.

I've been able to give Garmins' forerunner 610 a go last week. This is a totally over-engineered solution, and completely pointless. Even ridiculous, if you ask me... a touchscreen that has a surface the size of a coin??? After two minutes, I wanted to throw it away in frustration. Luckily its owner caught it.

[albert]

Hello Canadien,

I did already 22700 hm with the GB580P here are my conclusions:

Does your calf begins to look like small melons?

With a good saddle it is not a big deal, the ride was nice but heavy. we did climb 77 mountains and did till now 22700 high meters that's not so much because it is 227 km with 10% over the total of 1650 km. But the last ones were hard. more than 13% and this longer than 6 km, from the 16 km climb. Also if go's this steep you sometimes have to get of the saddle.

My opinion is that we should use it just to switch page like an iphone or ipod touch. I suppose nothing can't beat this efficiency when riding on a bike and wanting to switch page.... We could also use tap screen (tap anywhere on the screen) to trigger lap or any other kind of simple function. You know, just the basic...

I don't like the touch screens especially not on a small screen like the GB580, laps are hardly used by cyclists so this function on tap would be annoying.

Regards,

Albert

[canadien]

I know about touch screen fragility from the beginning (since garmin 405 apparition) and was always against it. But I think something must be done to switch page easily because even if buttons pressure are decrease I am sure I wont like to switch page with lateral button while riding. Maybe I am la-z-y boy? But front face buttons with good sensibility (at the touch or light pressure of a finger) would be easy access. I think there is still room for it at bottom of 580...