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Author Topic: HRM accuracy  (Read 15216 times)

TWG_TECH8

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2011, 11:30:03 pm »

I did training with my exercise bike which have build in HRM and I compared 625xt behaving with that.
I noticed when I did intervall training, after each heavy part of it when heart rate was high, 625xt had very long delay to show actual (lower) heart rate. Build in HRM shows more reliable heart rate from begining of recovery part of training.

Overall 625xt shows same or few Bpm more than build in HRM on exercise bike.

Rookie


Hi Rookie,

It shows GH-625XT has little higher reading and slow recovery time, isn't it?
How about the most time performance?

Sincerely,

Geoffrey
Mainly, as said, performance is quite same or bit higher heart rate than build in HRM shows. There wasn't too big difference. Biggest difference was slow react after heart rate change.

Most positive HRM experience I have had with ANT+ devices, GH-505 and GB-580P. I have not any HRM problem ever with those. So, I hope that future models will be with ANT+, it is absolutely much better.

Rookie

Hi Rookie,

The ANT+ product is our further plan, we will always strength our competence. Hopefully you keep loving and promote our products. ;)


Sincerely,

Geoffrey
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gerhard

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2011, 12:01:55 pm »

Some comment on the posting subject: I doubt that the hrm-belt to watch transfer protocol has an effect on the accuracy, unless the signal is disrupted.
If there are problems, it should be the belt itself or possibly the device processing the hrm-data that is the problem, but I cannot say.
ANT+ has a lot of other possibilities, matching different type of sensors. For instance, I doubt that a Footpod or Power sensor from Globalsat makes sense, but there are suppliers.  Good to hear that the main plan is to use ANT+.

I am curious about "lunch run" scenario, whar is this? :)
We use the same scenario on distance calculation, but it still has slight different. I would like to know where did you check distacne, from SportTracks or on device? There are little different results.

I have kind of a deal with flexible worktime: I take longer lunches and stay longer in the evenings when needed.
Especially at this time of year, I only get some sun when going to work, but it is dark when I go home, so it is nice to get some sun.
Still, I cannot wait too long time for GPS fixes, I have colleagues waiting for me. Even if the GH-625XT locks fast, the handling if starting the timer before GPS fix is a bug to me: That data is seem to just be deleted. Well, that is a separate topic.

Sure the distance calculations differ between the device (lap markers can be used after activities), Globalsat speed track converted to distance track, and point to point (what SportTracks uses). They all differ, but point in the same direction. (Garmin has a separate distance track, so there device track can be studied in detail, which is useful when comparing like this, but not much in normal use.) I have sent some summaries, you can get the complete data.

ST Trails plugin has an update on Google Code with some instructions:http://code.google.com/p/trails/wiki/Tutorials#Compare_Data_Sources
The Globalsat speed track to distance importer for ST import plugin is not officially released. I have too many open questions about the com protocol still (I have sent emails...). I guess some will be resolved when TGP is updated.
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Hubert

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2011, 11:17:17 am »

Hi all,

finally I was able to record some data for HRM values and I want to show the following
pictures, which show what I "felt" all the time:

Please first have a look at the following two screen shots:
Both are taken simultaniously during the same run. I had the new GH-625XT on one arm,
the old GH-625 on the other. And I used the old HRM belt (the one belonging to GH-625).
The values are almost the same and it's hard to find a difference. Further more, the values
are in a range what is my normal heart rate. So - that is fine and is exactly what I expected !


GH-625XT with old HRM belt.


GH-625 with old HRM belt.


Now have a look at the next pair of screen shots. This has been taken 3 days later at the
same track. Again with GH-625XT on one arm and GH-625 on the other. This time I used
the new HRM belt (belonging to the new GH-625XT).
There are some peaks (which hopefully are not created by my heart) and values differ from
one watch and the other:


GH-625XT with new HRM belt.


GH-625 with new HRM belt.

This is what I have seen already in some other test runs, but data was never comparable as it is
now. My conclusion is, that the new HRM belt might cause some more peaks and so I will use
the old one from now on.

Regards, Hubert
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GH-625XT, Firmware: F-GGH-2P-1112231 (Beta)
GH-505 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2C-1007161 (Beta)
GH-625 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2A-1001073 (Version XII)
with GS-Sport Gym Pro v1.6.8 and Sporttracks 2.1.3326

AndersBrontosaurus

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2011, 05:11:34 pm »

My experience is that the HRM shows a too high pulse when I'm running but when I stop and measure it manually the HRM suddenly shows the right pulse. Can it have something to do with the running? I remember Gerhard was speculating about this too.

Anders
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partyman66

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2011, 06:53:20 pm »

This is what I have seen already in some other test runs, but data was never comparable as it is
now. My conclusion is, that the new HRM belt might cause some more peaks and so I will use
the old one from now on.

Regards, Hubert

Hubert,

What kind of an environment are you doing your test runs in?  Is it out in the woods in a rural area and away from city streets and businesses where there are no nearby electronics to contribute electromagnetic interference?

If you happen to be standing still and in an area where there is no interference, you'd likely get a steady and consistent pulse as detected by the GH625-XT heart-rate monitor strap... whereas when you are running, you're constantly moving so you could be passing through areas where the electromagnetic interference is greater than other areas.  It would be interesting to map out where you were on your course when these peaks occurred, and see if there is any correlation between your location during the run and the pulse peaks.  If you run the same course numerous times and see that the peaks tend to happen at the same spots during your run, that's likely the case.  Maybe these peaks are more likely to happen when you run by a stoplight, a large electrical transformer(on a telephone pole), or other stationary electrical device which emits a strong Electromagnetic Field.... and maybe even things like laser/radar jamming devices in vehicles driving by could be contributing to the peaky pulse behavior.  A good test would also be to run under some high-tension power lines(make sure they are transmission lines, not distribution lines), and see if that causes the pulse readings to be all over the place.

It's possible that the heart-rate strap from the new GH625-XT is just hypersensitive to such environmental factors as EMF from nearby electronics or even Solar Flares.  Unexpected peaks could also be filtered out at the firmware level with ease, but that would just be masking the real problem.

I regularly run under power lines, so I can report on this when I get my GH625-XT in a few weeks, if nobody else can do this by then (I just ordered it yesterday and it's shipping from Israel).
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 08:01:32 pm by partyman66 »
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Hubert

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2011, 12:36:32 pm »

Hi partyman !

Hubert,

What kind of an environment are you doing your test runs in?  Is it out in the woods in a rural area and away from city streets and businesses where there are no nearby electronics to contribute electromagnetic interference?
There are no city streets and no business buildings where I did my test runs. However, although it is
around a lake, it is not pure nature, there are some smaller boat houses and things like that.
Even if there are some minor disturbances they should not have this kind of impact to the HRM
values. And - as we can see: Is has no impact when using the old belt.

Maybe you are right:
It's possible that the heart-rate strap from the new GH625-XT is just hypersensitive to such environmental factors as EMF from nearby electronics or even Solar Flares.  Unexpected peaks could also be filtered out at the firmware level with ease, but that would just be masking the real problem.
I had the same doubts when filter functions were used (and later optimimized) first time in GH-625.
But later on, the result was okay. And finally: I'm not interested in every single value of my heart beat.
I just look at the three values for MIN, AVG and MAX. That's all and enough (for me !).
But - of course - peaks have a big influence on MAX HR (and also on AVG). So I don't like to have them.
On the other hand - of course - I don't want to have a filter with a result of a straight line !

Regards, Hubert
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GH-625XT, Firmware: F-GGH-2P-1112231 (Beta)
GH-505 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2C-1007161 (Beta)
GH-625 M, Firmware: F-GGH-2A-1001073 (Version XII)
with GS-Sport Gym Pro v1.6.8 and Sporttracks 2.1.3326

gerhard

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2011, 06:13:00 pm »

But - of course - peaks have a big influence on MAX HR (and also on AVG). So I don't like to have them.
On the other hand - of course - I don't want to have a filter with a result of a straight line !

I am also mostly interested in Average.
However, periods with high HR is interesting: I check peak periods after runs to check  if I am close to overtraining or risk becoming sick.
It is especially at these peaks that 625XT belt give too high values.

That said, this is no dealbreaker for me. I can live with it.
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AndersBrontosaurus

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2012, 01:32:48 pm »

With the new firmware I still have the same situation. Pulse way to high (or low) but when I stop it corrects itself.

My experience is that the HRM shows a too high pulse when I'm running but when I stop and measure it manually the HRM suddenly shows the right pulse. Can it have something to do with the running? I remember Gerhard was speculating about this too.

Anders
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TWG_TECH8

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2012, 09:43:10 am »

With the new firmware I still have the same situation. Pulse way to high (or low) but when I stop it corrects itself.

My experience is that the HRM shows a too high pulse when I'm running but when I stop and measure it manually the HRM suddenly shows the right pulse. Can it have something to do with the running? I remember Gerhard was speculating about this too.

Anders

Hi Anders,

According to my experience, it might be helpful if you wear the belt with logo up side down.
Wear the wrong direction will generate more peak from belt.

Sincerely,

Geoffrey
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Longjog @ GS-Sport-Servicecenter

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2012, 03:31:40 pm »

Hi,
it could be the accuracy is better in lower pulse areas because of error detection algorithm.

Can anybody of the (winter-time-)bikers test if the accuracy is worse while biking at higher speeds also, please?

Regards
Longjog
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GH-625M, GH-625XT, GH-505, GH-561, GB-580P, BT-338
Germany

gerhard

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2012, 03:34:42 pm »

Can anybody of the (winter-time-)bikers test if the accuracy is worse while biking at higher speeds also, please?
I have used it when winterbiking, but not really hard. No specific problems.

I attribute the problem with high readings to static from training clothes only. When you stop, there is no friction and the high readings go away.
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partyman66

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2012, 11:36:10 pm »

Can anybody of the (winter-time-)bikers test if the accuracy is worse while biking at higher speeds also, please?
I have used it when winterbiking, but not really hard. No specific problems.

I attribute the problem with high readings to static from training clothes only. When you stop, there is no friction and the high readings go away.

If static electricity is the suspected problem, someone could probably wrap the front side of their heartbeat monitor strap with electrical tape as a test to see if this eliminates or reduces the problem(the side that doesn't face your chest)... or if you live in a warm-weather location and are male, run without a shirt on.  Heck, if you're female you could run with no shirt on too, but I suspect you'll create more of a buzz with the local onlookers than your shirt was creating with static ;).
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gerhard

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2012, 05:52:33 pm »

Can anybody of the (winter-time-)bikers test if the accuracy is worse while biking at higher speeds also, please?
I have used it when winterbiking, but not really hard. No specific problems.

I attribute the problem with high readings to static from training clothes only. When you stop, there is no friction and the high readings go away.

If static electricity is the suspected problem, someone could probably wrap the front side of their heartbeat monitor strap with electrical tape as a test to see if this eliminates or reduces the problem(the side that doesn't face your chest)... or if you live in a warm-weather location and are male, run without a shirt on.  Heck, if you're female you could run with no shirt on too, but I suspect you'll create more of a buzz with the local onlookers than your shirt was creating with static ;).
For my ANT HR band, I had no issues with a cotton shirt and very small problem with an heavy function material shirt.
So I do not think you need to take the shirt off, you can try another shirt. I do not plan to for some months, I prefer outdoor activities.
In some earlier bike sessions, I have used cotton T-shirts without problems. (but not a max HR)
 
The behavior for the 625XT is similar to the ANT HRM initially: Some low and some spikes until the band is wet.
The 625XT specific problem occurs for me when I am close to the max HR, therefore the problem is very easy to detect.
For me, I would like a confirmation that it is static and not something else.
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AndersBrontosaurus

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2012, 05:02:18 am »

I tried wrapping the HRM in wet cottoncloth this summer without success but will try again. Really suspect it is a static electricity but canadiens new heurekathread looks promising.
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canadien

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Re: HRM accuracy
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2012, 10:37:47 pm »

Hi Anders,

I deleted my old thread du to old/new belt confusion.

Next post is my update for the testing with new belt and goes in the same way that Hubert hypothesis.

I do suspect intermittent or bad contact/solderings into the new belt electrodes. This make sense with your theory of moving or not for bpm precision: not moving = better contact, moving = increase bad contact.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 11:20:39 pm by canadien »
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